Co-exist and Thrive

This post has been rattling around in my brain ever since the Citadel expansion went live. Last night at Ungodly o’clock, the manuscript for book 3 went to the proofreaders, so I am once again, a man with a life. Let me tell you, 30,000 words in 6 days is not a feat I intend to repeat anytime soon, as the brain fatigue is a killer. Still, for some perverted reason I sit and write this. Perhaps this is a cathartic exercise; I’m too tired to try to figure out whether it is or not, to be honest.

So, I just had a look, and back in late 2015 I posted about the possibility of a different kind of alliance structure to cope with FozzieSov. The curious may find it here. It was my opinion that the then current system of PVP based alliances using PAP links and ratting/mining fleets wouldn’t work. Anyone who is curious as to whether I was right or not may want to ask Goonswarm, Razor, CO2, and a swarm (sorry) of other alliances who are, well, less well endowed with space than they were.

My old alliance of FCON, too, is “Restructuring” down South. However, if anyone should be able to make a sovereignty holding alliance work, it’s them. It depends on whether they have truly learned, or, like all good politicians, are just trying to convince their members that they’ve learned. Only time will tell.

Here’s my take on what a sovereignty holding alliance needs to do to achieve what is written on the tin. Purely an opinion piece, this, just spit-balling, as it were. And remember, this only applies to alliances who hold sovereignty, nobody else.

  1. Be modest and take what you can hold – Yes, be reasonable about the amount of space you can expect to hold with your membership. Start small and expand slowly. Establish properly before expansion begins, too. The days of holding space ‘because reasons’ is over, and it is not coming back. Each system added must be accounted for with a stratum of different members to use it wisely. Mine all possible moons, fully upgrade and ensure you can keep indices to a high level. This guarantees that your space has a vulnerability window so small that you can defend it easily from troll entosis tossers.
  2. PVP’ers should be professionals – What is a professional? A professional is paid to do what he does. A pro musician does not sweep floors to support his music, that is a hobby, not a profession. Therefore a professional PVP’er does not need to rat or mine to support himself. In my experience, good PVP’ers loathe PVE anyway. His ships are supplied, not reimbursed. This means ships are assigned, not handed out like candy. A replacement ship is supplied upon receipt of a link for the loss of the old one. Pilots who prove themselves should also be rewarded in PLEX, to support their accounts. These PVP pilots do not click PAP links, and are either trained, or already skilled, in small through to large gang warfare. N+1 is useless for the majority of PVP in sovereignty null-sec now, and everyone I know is well aware of it.
  3. Diplomats should be good at what they do – These people are essential in the new Eve. Maintaining good relationships with your neighbors is vital for any alliance, now. I mean, real diplomats, too. Not slippery, snake-tongued assholes who lie for their alliance; not politicians who can only conceive of any friendship as being made of plastic. People who understand the principles of proper diplomacy; the ability to bridge culture gaps, age gaps, and IQ gaps. These guys should be looking to establish working relationships with their neighbors, not blueing half of null-sec. Think about it; why did Goons get their butts handed to them by the rest of Eve? Because they were assholes. I mean, they really were, not just to their enemies, but to their allies, too. Work in with those around you, and give them the respect they deserve as fellow sovereignty holders. Shoot everyone else.
  4. PVE’ers should understand their role, and so should everyone else – PVE players will need to adjust, too. It is not up to the PVP members to come running every time some jackass in a Stratios comes through. Their ships should be tanked properly. A properly fitted Ishtar will absolutely melt a Stratios, hands down. I know mine do, and so do all my mate’s Ishtars, too. And their BS ratting ships, too. They should know how to deal with cloaky campers (it’s not hard, honestly it isn’t), they should have scouts up to avoid gangs, they should be at the keyboard (capital rats have put a dent in AFKtars anyway), and should enjoy what they do. They should also pay a hefty tax, please read up on Denmark (the happiest country in the world) to understand why that is. The miners should be the hard-core guys, they know who they are, and I know a few. Guys with alt fleets, who use the right ships, and so on. They too, should pay a decent tax from the buy-back scheme. The industry guys should know how to make good ISK out of their BPO collections without fleecing their alliance mates. PI guys, POS fuellers, market stockers, shipping pilots, all should be good at what they do, not simply guys who want to be rich by leaching off an alliance for as long as possible. Which takes me to my next point:
  5. Leaders should lead, and managers should manage – The best leaders inspire, are openly communicative and are definitely NOT politicians. In Eve, we have the opportunity to get right what the world has ballsed up so badly it’s positively laughable. And that is, not let the scum rise to the top. A good alliance leader will inspire his people with a vision of united purpose and function. He would motivate his people, not baffle them with BS. He would not talk for twenty minutes without saying anything, he would not sugar-coat bad events with layers of positive thinking bollocks. He would get rid of sycophants and encourage those who have ability in a certain area by giving them responsibility in what they’re good at. He would also be aware of the danger of cliques and old boy networks. Managers would be able to organize systems that are efficient and easy to work with. They would listen with discernment to their members and be able to identify the valuable criticism that always lays amongst the dross of unqualified or just plain bad opinion.

There are many more things, of course. FC training, the need to avoid sycophancy and ego based promotion among FCs, citadel construction and management. Sovereignty null-sec alliances have been awful organizations for years, truly they have. Now, FozzieSov, capital changes and citadels have swept the rubbish aside. There exists the opportunity to create something better, something new. That’s my opinion, anyway.


4 responses to “Co-exist and Thrive

  1. Disagree with lots of stuff there. Mainly with specialization (PvP/PvE/ whatever) you mention.

    It leads to “caste” system and avoiding responsibility by saying “it’s not my job” for even the smallest tasks that fall outside of ones “specialization”.

    That’s exactly what is happening IRL as well.
    Creating jobs out of everything leads to pointing fingers for the slightest fail without any attempt to understand the problem let alone attempt to help solve it.

    For a healthy community each person (while some specialization is good) needs to be familiar with most other things and willing to do them when time comes.
    Basically a “jack of most trades and master of one”.

    It creates redundancy for cases where somebody gets sick or needs help due to “insert reason”.
    Such cooperation bond people since they help each other more.. and more willingly.

    It is interesting how you frown on “renting” while promoting specialized PvE corps that pay taxes. What exactly is the difference?


    • Thanks for the feedback. In my experience, the caste system, as you call it, is a product of just one group; the 8%. The problem with the existing structure is that, because it’s a game, we see PVP players ratting (badly), PVE players PVPing (also badly), PVP based alliances with rubbish infrastructure because they have no indy corps (hello AAA), leadership with totally unsuitable people in charge of the wrong departments. I don’t really care if my plumber can do electrical work or not; he’s a good plumber.
      A jack of all trades is a master of none – exactly the problem.
      One of the reasons for people not doing jobs is because they go AFK, because they’re not enjoying what they’re doing.
      The taxation issue is interesting, because it would have to be low enough to make ratting and mining worthwhile. However, as opposed to renting, a PVE member in a good alliance would be happier to be a part of something. I think the main thrust of all arguments like yours is the old saw that Eve is a PVP game, therefore everyone should PVP. Solid statistics from several Fanfests show that is wrong, completely.
      The PAP metric is simply bad leadership at work; lazy leadership, too. It merely forces unwilling people into fleets. If one cannot fill fleets with willing people that is because you have no “Real PVP’ers” in your alliance. If PVP players were paid to do what they enjoy, they would fleet up willingly. Unless there simply isn’t enough people who really want to play Eve in a PVP context.
      Not sure about the frowning on renting – I’m CEO of a corp that, y’know, rents.


      • “The current idea of populating lower viability systems with semi-rental corps is right up there with growth based politics; it’s bloody stupid.”
        So what you’re saying is that you’re part of the above politics which you yourself called stupid.

        “The PAP metric is simply bad leadership at work; lazy leadership, too. It merely forces unwilling people into fleets.”
        Bad leadership or not it achieves exactly what it is designed to do. In large fleets ANYBODY that can PvE can also PvP. In fact I would say it’s easier to PvP in those cases.
        You are supplied the ships. You are told exactly what to do, where to go, who to lock and what to shoot. It doesn’t get any easier then that.

        In front-line ships an experienced PvPer isn’t really much better then a random guy off the street. Fleet doctrines are specifically designed in such a way to allow that.

        Experienced PvPers need only to occupy the critical positions for such a fleet to work.
        It’s in small gang PvP where the experience becomes hugely important as each member is supposed to take care of himself.

        Besides I think you were there when we (30p) went up against Hard Knocks(in QYZ) and won even though our pilots had very little PvP experience.

        “Unless there simply isn’t enough people who really want to play Eve in a PVP context.”
        Partly true but in 0.0 if you want to keep space you will have more chances if there’s more of you willing to fight for it.

        EVE is not a PvP game. It’s a game where you can do nearly anything.
        Most never PvP. That’s normal. At the same time most live in high sec.

        Reality is however that in 0.0 PvP is what rules space space.
        You can hold no space of your own but if you’re stronger then people whos flag flies over the systems they will either be forced to move out or pay you tribute (rent).
        Many are fine with that (renting). However renting gives you no right to demand protection. Renting ultimately only guarantees you security from the people you are paying rent to.

        “I don’t really care if my plumber can do electrical work or not; he’s a good plumber.”
        Assuming you have an electrics guy to call. If for whatever reason he’s not there you’d pray for a plumber that can also do some basic electrics work.

        “the caste system, as you call it, is a product of just one group; the 8%”
        Partly true. It’s encouraged by the 8% and people willingly embrace it as it allows them to stay in their box (comfort zone) and point fingers when somebody else box isn’t working as they think it should.
        God forbid however if they did something about it or even offered help. That would require extra effort.

        At the same time people embracing it the most are the first to while when the 8% box works more for themselves then for the other 92%.
        The 8% is a reflection of the society not the cause of it.

        A Jack of all trades type while less efficient is more likely to survive unexpected events since everybody is more capable (and willing) to pitch in in areas they are not specialized for.


      • Indeed, I am part of the currently (in my humble opinion) stupid setup of renting. My suggestion was that there may be a better way, if true co-existence could be established. However, you make very good points about the impracticality of such an arrangement. People, at the end of the day, are people. They’re rubbish at looking after themselves and the planet they live on, why would a computer game be any different?
        Your point about the fact that small gang proficient players are no better in a large fleet also gives me pause to reflect. Of course, you’re quite right. Do you think CCP is trying to engineer circumstances that encourage more small to medium gang stuff? If so, do you think it’s working?
        I see that large organizations who don’t manage their space properly and have adapted (the Russians) simply leave systems fallow, now. They’ve found it easier to just deny anyone else the right to use that system. That is the current situation where we are. That seems a shame, really. When the Drone Walkers were causing issues, and took a whole pile of systems, xXDEATHXx simply parked a super-carrier on each node, and had a 200 or so man super fleet ready to cyno in if anyone looked at one of their ships funny. Strangely enough, nobody did.
        No fleets needed there, which, I’m guessing, is not what CCP had in mind.
        So, perhaps a fealty system, as you suggest, is the best arrangement. The true PVP’ers occupy the vital positions and the rest are just “F1 Monkeys”.
        I still see the core issue as one of willingness. The PAP system is a hostile and aggressive kind of management, ergo my opinion that it’s lazy. Then again, if big organizations are still the way to go, that is what must happen.
        My idea was that more people could be utilized in null-sec, if the PVP barrier were removed.
        You see, the main issue with Eve PVP is that it’s very time consuming, and, I’m afraid, it’s also by popular opinion, rather dull.
        So, it would seem the intention of the sovereignty player base is to keep things as close to what they were as possible.
        Pity, really. So much potential, with so little imagination.
        Our corp has taken off due to us using our imagination. It’s structure is absolute anathema to sovereignty null-sec’s mentality. Then again, the people in it are all close friends with many years of life experience behind them.
        For example; two of our guys wanted a second system, so we got one. The corp can’t afford it yet, so one of our guys pays for it, so the other two can do what they want.
        Note the fact that he doesn’t even use it.
        Life on the other side, that’s what that is.
        Definitely not Eve.
        But we’re still here. Go figure. I just wondered if there were enough decent people in the game to make such work on a greater level.
        However, this is the real world, and decent folk are a small minority, while there’s a plethora of assholes.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s